4Leakman
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![[*]](./images/corporate/default_icon.gif) posted on 22-7-08 at 01:01 PM |
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All right you leakalyzer guys...
How about a bit of information for us poor, non-technological pool guys. 
It seems like the units in the field are in the warmer sun belt climates which have different pool types, for the most part, then those of us in the
Northern climates. I have read where the LA (I don't want to keep typing that name over and over) is working and understandably is being tweaked
during its infancy. But... Is it able to generate any money. Generally, when I get a call for a leaking pool I already know its leaking so I don't
need a machine to tell me that. I have the caller shut down the pool and plug the plumbing for a day and let me know the results. Using that info we
will either use the Leaktrak for vinyl or do a visual (other pool types). If its a plumbing leak we can pressure test the pool in the 10 to 30 minute
range and determine where the problem is located. Up here (S.E. New England) a majority of the pools are vinyl lined with 1 to 4 returns using 1 or 2
tee's pipes plus 1 or 2 skimmers and sometimes a main drain. Intricate attached spa gunites are fairly rare. So with this in mind, what will the LA
do for me? I am definitely a gizmo and gadget nut but am having some heartburn trying to justify an LA purchase. But hey, feel free to jump on my case
and prove my negativity wrong. The more the merrier and it will be better for all the guys here as well as the crew at Anderson.
Thanks for your input! 
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hap
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| posted on 22-7-08 at 11:08 PM |
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Hey 4Leakman,
Sounds like you don't want or need one. I doubt you'll find a way to generate money with it alone finding leaks. Although Rob thinks he can create
a new business using it. Ask Rob. He has Leakalyzer serial number 0002. I think Lance is holding off selling more until he gets some details worked
out....? Ask Lance.
The Leakalyzer is not worth any heartburn, hope this clears it up.
hap
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4Leakman
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| posted on 23-7-08 at 05:42 AM |
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You misunderstand me.
Hi Hap:
Thanks for the reply. I am not averse to buying such a unit, I am just looking for input from those that have them and how they are being used in the
field. I know the "old" way, the way I do things now. I want to hear the "new" way and how this device is being used to your advantage and how it
saves time finding leaks in different scenarios. So... please enlighten me! 
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4Leakman
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| posted on 24-7-08 at 08:21 AM |
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Thanks Aqualeak
This is some of the info I was looking for. First, let me say I have already learned that having folks do their own investigating is a loss. I hadn't
really observed that in the past but I have most definitely noticed it this year. So, after cutting my own ba**s off I have decided not to go down
that path anymore. If someone calls for a leak we will go out and determine what and where the leak is. Any offerings as to what the base charges are
for providing this service? I tend to "think as a customer" and try not to charge exorbitant prices as some others in the area do. You obviously do
not have many, or any vinyl pools so you are not into using the Leaktrac device. That device is a Godsend to me and I have used it on jobs that
"professional divers" have been to and could not locate any leaks. Anyway, I will send out an email as you requested and you erhaps can enlighten me
further.
Thanks
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reedpool
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| posted on 25-7-08 at 10:43 AM |
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Our base charge for a leak location is $375.00. We guarantee to find the leak. For liner leaks we include patching up to three holes in that price.
For underground plumbing leaks we provide a quote for repairs after we locate the leak. You may consider this exorbitant but this price allows us a
little leeway in helping the customer and allows us to provide excellent service.
Rob
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4Leakman
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| posted on 27-7-08 at 10:46 AM |
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I have got to believe that pricing for any product, pools or otherwise will vary by area. Obviously some places are more affluent than others and
price is not really a consideration. I service more of a working class part of the world and not a resort area as some do. I think that $375.00 is a
fair price if you are going in with the leak trak and testing the plumbing also. Again, in some areas that may be considered "high" while in others
it would be considered "low". Also important in the equation is competition, or lack thereof. We all know the costs involved with daily operations
and what we need to charge to maintain operations.
If you go out to a "leak" and find nothing other than evaporation do you still charge your full fee or just a service call? This question is open to
all who care to answer!
| Quote: | Originally posted by reedpool
Our base charge for a leak location is $375.00. We guarantee to find the leak. For liner leaks we include patching up to three holes in that price.
For underground plumbing leaks we provide a quote for repairs after we locate the leak. You may consider this exorbitant but this price allows us a
little leeway in helping the customer and allows us to provide excellent service.
Rob |
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ALD
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| posted on 27-7-08 at 09:17 PM |
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It depends on how you "sell" your service.
In my business we give a full guarantee that we find the leak or the customer does not pay. That guarantee is based upon their estimate of their
water loss. If their water loss is very low, non-existent or they can't articulate even an estimate of water loss we will explain very clearly that
they owe us for the full leak detection regardless of our findings.
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Lance
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| posted on 29-7-08 at 07:42 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 4Leakman
If you go out to a "leak" and find nothing other than evaporation do you still charge your full fee or just a service call? This question is open to
all who care to answer!
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I would suggest that "Leak Detection Experts" begin considering themselves "Water Conservation Experts." You may want to consider selling pool
covers or getting yourself lined up with someone who can. With the Leakalyzer, water loss of any kind is very measurable. You can show a customer
that they are loosing x number of gallons of water per hour. Your perscription for eliminating this waste will then involve addressing the two main
areas of loss. A cover to address evaporation and your leak repair for the rest.
I personally have been suprised with the number of gallons that are lost every day to evaporation in my own pool. Once pool owners are able to
visualize and quantify this (especially in this era of conservation conciousness) they will be motivated to solve all of their water loss problems.
Lance
PS next batch of updated Leakalyzers - with better filtering - are finally going out this week.
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trackerm
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| posted on 29-7-08 at 10:53 AM |
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I am having difficulty in justifying purchase of such a unit. Here is my take on the topic. I agree with some arguements of making the customer plug
off pipes, etc.. However. I can easily get customers to do this , and by having them do a little leg work on their own, can save them money in the
long run. I have never lost a customer to another leak detector this way. The bad point on this is there are some people out there than cannot set up
this task because they are not handy, dont understand, or just plain screw it up from the beginning. so you have to take that on a case by case
basis.
How does some one recoup the cost of the leakalyser? Well, i think if you market it as a service call to determine if you have a leak or not, some
people would probably be willing for you to set it up and charge a nominal fee for determine if they even have a leak. This way, there is not room for
error in having that home owner not understand the basic process of the bucket test, despite it being FREE. The bucket test has its flaws in that we
are relying on the home owner giving us information. that leaves a margin for error depending on whom you are dealing with.
I live in an area where i rely on pool companies for referrals. The pool companies already have a predetermined amount that it costs for leak
detection. ITs kind of like managed care in the health care field. the insurance companies will only pay x amount for the service despite your
wanting a higher rate. so once again, it depends on how your business is set up. for me , i dont think 375 is a bad price for a dive, electronic leak
detection, and pressurization. Many pool companies in my area will argue thats too much money. sonic detection in my book to pin point the leak would
be another charge. hey, dig up your entire yard because you leak in on the pressure side somewhere, or i have deteted your leak right here, x marks
the spot. trouble in that is the company, and i dont do excavation and pipe repairs are going to do their own detection and charge for it. they wont
dig based on my diagnosis, unless i am really tight knit with that particular contractor.
so yes. the leakalyser is a great machine that can help you in assessment of any leaks before you break out all the hard ware. how you can recoup a
charge is based off what the perceive value of the service is and what people are willing to pay for.
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hap
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| posted on 30-7-08 at 05:58 PM |
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4Leakman
I'm changing my opinion of the Leakalyzer's time saving ability. I do think it can save some physical labor by pointing us in the correct direction
finding leaks. I did have a new pool/spa dam wall leak. That's pretty rare and I would have searched high and low before I found it without the
Leakalyzer's help. After isolating and separately testing both I learned that the pool lost water only during spa flooding into the pool over the dam
wall. A quick dye test confirmed the leak location.
I'm in agreement with you on basic and simple pools, the Leakalyzer is not really needed. Although I did have a fifty year old pool last week with 4
separate leaks. Just when I thought I was finished finding the last one the Leakalyzer kept me searching for more structure leaks.
I've already described in other posts how I use it to determine structure, pool, spa, or plumbing leaks.
Again, if your pools are simple you may not need a Leakalyzer. This thing ain't magic, it's one more tool. I'm hoping you can visualize it's
impact on your business from these discussions.
Lance has mentioned that this device may help leak detectors become water conservation specialists and generate new business selling conservation
techniques, covers, and supplies. There's no doubt that showing evaporation is impressive when you add up gallons per month. The problem here is,
water is still cheap and bubble pool covers are a hassle. I suspect the cost of evaporated water is under $200.00 per year here. I could be wrong on
this and welcome correction.
hap
| Quote: | Originally posted by 4Leakman
Hi Hap:
Thanks for the reply. I am not averse to buying such a unit, I am just looking for input from those that have them and how they are being used in the
field. I know the "old" way, the way I do things now. I want to hear the "new" way and how this device is being used to your advantage and how it
saves time finding leaks in different scenarios. So... please enlighten me! |
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trackerm
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| posted on 2-8-08 at 01:02 PM |
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I have considered the leakalyzer in two aspects of my business.
First, people can perform the bucket test for free. Its not entirely accurate, but gives you a overall idea of whats going on in a body of water
before setting out to visit it. The problem with that is there are a lot of home owners who literally mess the test up. They set it up incorrectly,
read it incorrectly, or report data that is inaccurate. One possible aspect of removing this large margin of error is to purchase the leakalyzer and
do the test yourself, charging anominal service fee in gathering information with regards if a home owner has a leak or not.
What I have been doing in the past is have the home owner perform a bucket test AFTER my work is complete. I usually set it up for them, having them
call me back in 24 huurs with the results. That saves me time going back out to the pool (cost of gas) and checking myself. Once again, hte problem
with that is homeowners somehow dont call me the next day, forget, or tell me something so erroreonous it will require retesting.
I do the bucket test after my work so they call in the results. that serves two fold. I know i got everything, and the customer is confident i have
found everything. But dont think that, once again, people screw this up. just had a customer call me he had a above ground leak, under the stairs. it
was the only leak he had. i set up the bucket test and he calls me the next day telling me he lost no addtional water. Foiur days later, he calls me
again. hey i am losing water. i go out ot the pool 9it was local) and checked my work. My work did not fail, he had no addional leak. I did charge him
a service call because he was convinced, after my explaining evaporation, AND THE FACT HE CALL ME AND TOLD ME HE MEASURED THE BUCKET. Just goes to
show how uneducated our public is. I try and save my customers money my giving them as much ifnormation as possible. But if they are going to mess up
a simple test and request your going back out, a fee must be assessed. They doubt their own work, now drop the leakalyzer and they will doubt that as
much as well doesnt matter what you do.
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brrscuba
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| posted on 6-9-08 at 06:23 PM |
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An entire month without new comments on the new Leakalizer??? How about some more comments, I know Lance has shipped more units, anybody in the
northeast have one yet?
Thanks
Bruce
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4Leakman
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| posted on 6-9-08 at 09:20 PM |
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I was wondering the same.
Been pretty quiet for some time!
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brrscuba
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| posted on 1-10-08 at 06:46 PM |
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TWO months with no Leakalizer reports, I know they have shipped more units, how about sharing some feedback with those of us considering getting one
for 2009
Bruce
poolrepairdiver.com
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allaroundleaks
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| posted on 9-10-08 at 07:47 PM |
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Reading these forums, about the leakalizer Im a bit scepticle On purchasing one just for the fact that people know when there pool is losing more than
normal amounts of water and filling there pool more often... As a thought Im sure you could market the leakalizer for a free water loss analasys pool
survey and pull in customers that are writing there leak problem off as evaporation.
If I was to purchase one atleast that would be my motive, I know I dont need it as another onsite tool I typically find leaks within 1-2hrs on a
single family domestic pool leak job so setting this thing up as I get started just wouldn't be that practical
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Lance
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| posted on 29-11-08 at 10:33 AM |
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O.K. here’s what has been going on with the Leakalyzer.
There are currently over 15 units out in the field being used. We have truly benefited from the productive feedback that can only come from having
the unit used in a variety of environments, for a variety of different purposes, by a variety of different users.
This feedback has exposed issues that have resulted in changes to the unit itself (improvements to the sensor, the software, and the circuitry),
clarified that issues we initially though were problems where not (temperature changes), and helped us understand procedural “best practices” that
assure success.
Overwhelmingly current users of the Leakalyzer are pleased with the operation of the unit. They are using the unit to improve location efficiency,
avoid call-backs, and generate new pool inspection revenue.
It seems that many of you may have also been contacted by another individual who has captured e-mail addresses and telephone numbers from this message
board and our online referral system. First of all, I apologize that our site has been the source for this information. Secondly, be assured that
that our goal is to provide product and service to you that is second to none in value. Competition is an important motivator in pushing us to
improve in this regard. We are confident that the current Leakalyzer product we are now shipping is the best water level sensor available. We back
this up with a generous money back guarantee.
Please feel free to call me if you have any questions. We also look forward to visiting with you at the upcoming trade shows where a working model of
the Leakalyzer will be on display.
Lance
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trackerm
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| posted on 30-11-08 at 04:20 PM |
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lance, I see you are on for a few seminars at the atlantic city show. Will you have an updated version of the new leakalyzer and be able to give us
leak geeks a better look at it?
From what I hear, Las Vegas attendance was poor. Lets hope AC proves otherwise.
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